PHIL 103 C, Wednesday, 9-6-17

Transcript

Okay so this is a philosophy 103 C on Wednesday, September 6 typing these wonderful words. As I speak hey now you all me to log most of you maybe even all of you were sitting there with two logs to give me right so what is this a long one as stated in your syllabus but also the extra wanted to make up class we missed last Wednesday so as I call your name please pass that forward and soapy looking to know your those you are sitting with people behind you try to be aware testing driving test forward so we can get this done without taking too much time and I also want to ask you to correct mispronunciation of your name we you’re college student body speaks many different languages and I am not the master of them but I I should say your name in a way that’s reasonable recognizable by cannot not a terrible mispronunciation so I would appreciate you correcting me so the first name I have here is no one Nick are you live phone I’m sorry one that got just don’t worry about p.m. right at yeah I mean actually an African languages it’s not totally silent but probably the subtlety is probably too much for me so thank you and how about them getting Dino when you hear the first day know yes well it hears I use them all out unfortunately actually got one here I can give you that I was using but anybody need a syllabus should send me an email and Alex Ruttenberg at York.CUNY.edu and I will attach a syllabus to the response so that’s a problem but see me up? Now so you didn’t hear me say in the first class that I address all of you by your last name so you are although when I take attendance I pronounce the first thing to say appreciate that correction but you are you will be missed I can list all I’ll go left and left like left right that that be okay Fabiola Arroyo was that close I’m sorry around well that was better kind of okay well work on it I’ll be teaching you stuff you can teach me stuff to lilibeth Arius Daniel Baines yes Gloria bear mail how do you say you last night oh my gosh’s for the first time give me the first teacher first teacher was ever gone it right so I’m improving it since alright help I do bear mail better ice.com Murray Ashley Gooding Noelia Gutierrez right team Inang Darius Jackman Peter Quan mahala be where John Montano Giovanni Morales Half way how handle Noel Samantha Dona Leslie put on hagan Mary Nicolini pariah seo lasting form Puranas jahvid Rafael Rajiv Rompas Brandon Sharma Eugenia Simmons Nicholas Stanley Jessica Secondine Jamaal Vinson Rosa younger Ryan you Gorrion Jory Young Shawnee do not worry Olivieri anybody I didn’t call what’s your last name ate your last name is spelled Glidden GOODO EN K Rhianna is with I a and NA and you were registered later that way okay EM B EM BT start again I’m lost okay EMB LE embleton and your first name Boyd okay somebody else so let’s start by talking about a few things that we already talked about most of you there first time what is the reason for this conversation you read Conversation between Sark why are they talking to each other tell me your name what’s your last name I’m sorry so that’s good information it’s interesting useful we got one guy and what they’re not in the courtroom are they okay so they’re just outside the court building and so where talking to so if you run into somebody that you know you usually at least say hello write me a soccer conversation unless you’re a rude person so that people know well we you’re find out is at least two people talking to each other have met because of what they say we know that they met outside of Portland and so use a frog is possible to see Socrates in her right breast pump while just take a look at this and make sure that you’re because I walked over to talk to you I’m curious him it doesn’t work you’re going to love this self reporting the transcript they met outside of Portland is Something about a frog what how are you so you mean is it is a transcript that is already of what I don’t want had trouble because of the word use the the program knows many famous offers like Plato or Aristotle ray I’ve been told that already but doesn’t recognize that name so it’s it’s putting in work so that’s why I’ll have to read it okay not enough on that to Mr. Vincent you wanted to continue for a moment my question is now specifically what is it that why is it that beautiful as possible to see Socrates there alright let’s get to get some help will all tell me your name again last thing tear tear no I did not I absolutely do not want you to reiterate what I just wanted to confess I don’t want to be looking at a book now it off you’ve time to look at the book before you going to class after but now we’re just sharing thoughts that are in our heads wire the information given not so so okay can we learn from this what is up bro what user growth reciprocity sake there. That it is not usually in the course doesn’t tell us that you know Socrates enough to know that this is not the place to see so using for this relationship fuck there is no explanation given for one price except that there’s there’s some question about when you have here whore too Possible Rolls armor for what not at the end but even while you’re there me if you’re in a court room you go for example the court case Library video job this little discussion education possibilities for both you bro and for Saturday why are you in the court room what are you doing that you’re doing wanted to say so in a court room we have we have charges made whether the civil court or criminal court charges are made sometime for allegedly doing something that is wrong on the wall right so you’re in court room in one of two capacities important to this discussion your name which is not something that this group will be likely to get notice and get right the first time or if you noticed that you might be puzzled by because we’re who police here is the citizen so we got a citizen of the police came like that we got us we got to citizens of that no exactly hands beside you know are you not he’s telling you this Socrates so you may wonder why that is so but the idea to be pressing charges against somebody possible reason is that something wrong Socrates tells him riza Press so you can answer that so so why is what you do froze reaction when he finds out that the charges pressed against Socrates even more surprised so thing would expect Saturday to be pressing charges against anybody because Socrates’s not the sort of guy to press charges which you might you might have this thought is Socrates the sword guided as icy or as a the more surprised to learn that you’re asked whose pressing charges whose pressing charges mellitus alright so let me now I’m going to do an experiment here I’m in a walk to the board and write the name down and say something see if it gets it not too far were okay so mellitus does you throw no malice now Socrates no malice not really so this tells you that Athens is big enough mean it’s not in New York but it is big enough that not already knows everybody and for talked about this enough I guess because been hello the court room with them the charges it’ll have been made that trial hasn’t occurred the charges of been made and so you describe the smell test are you forgot to me as long hair straightener nose right not much of a beard beard’s were the rule with grown men then that this is this is not much okay so the fact that mellow test that that I’m sorry that used to fro is even more surprised that charges of impressed because that’s soon explained because he asks Socrates what the charges are and to the charges Play who who was that it Inang will there’s murder involvement that does murder involved only in Yusuf Rose case right Brian I’m John and I want to get more people remind me your name so the see there is There’s more is in there there are you’re now so he’s he’s charged with corrupting the youth and corrupting the use by teaching them new gods not the gods of Athens so this tells you that there is a state religion very different kind of thing then we’re used to in our country know we’re aware that there are countries where there is an official religion and that there are different practices with respect then some countries there’s an official religion but you could practice some other religion right in some countries there’s only one religion that allowed to be practiced and talk but it’s different from what we’re used to here where religion is not supposed to be the business the government at all and is there there’s an unofficial religion and Socrates has been saying things about God other then if the official religion so that’s are the youth now how does Socrates evaluate these charges as he speaks to usufruct does he say as we so often hear people talking about charges made against them this is all political the bunch of lies when talking about well that’s that’s where he goes with use of pro once their discussion get started but so far using from was just asking him what he’s doing in there and the fact that he’s there because somebody pressed charges against Miss shocking do you approach and now Socrates tell him what the charges are and so the next point I want to see if anybody remembers that I don’t expect all of you to remember everything when the advantages of having he 530 people some people Number something to thunder Brothers is how Socrates talks about these charges he does not initially for example say that they’re false he speaks he still telling us about Malatesta anyway analysis is you tell me your name Mr. Morales yes exactly not kind of commended him however so semester ounces point is that Socrates says that if you’re going to have a good community got to start with young people and if there are some older people were making them bad you got to get rid of those old people okay So he’s not against this invincible your member Mr. Morales how using for a response for that Busy agree with Mela so Socrates says that what melitensis is trying to do seems to be trying to do is to improve the city argue about all the time in our city don’t wait what kind of education the on people should be getting my schools are doing a better job so we’re not surprised to hear somebody say I was a really important topic on so but Socrates is describing somebody who wants to improve the education in the city by getting rid of him Socrates is one of the corrupting influences how does use a pro feel about that because you’ve nothing to talk to you as a corrupting influence on the contrary anybody remember when you process he says I think that melody this is going to accomplish the opposite of what you say he intends this essay is not going to improve the education of the city is going to make it worse he this is fresh in reference to Socrates is the heart of the city in other words what you use a froze reaction is that instead of getting rid of a corrupting influence what belt is it trying to get rid of is the very best herson in the city so Bryce said we soon have an answer to the question what Mel what from thinks about the idea of pressing charges against Socrates he’s shocked that he shocked to hear that Socrates is in court because if Socrates is pressing charges against somebody that surprises you Cipro and you can 22 ideas together right now in the following idea if youth of Rosebank said Socrates is a a Wonderful person and if what Socrates.talk to people like these young people which is what belt this is upset about then you can draw this conclusion I think should’ve drawn this delusion that I’m offering it to something to consider which is that if Socrates sensitive person is doing something wrong or thinking and a wrong way about something he will talk to him doesn’t call the cop not much I’m not saying sake says you should never call account this is not what Socrates does talk to people and you have evidence for that in the book you’re reading right what he Socrates doing talking to you the front and raising questions using frozen lots I’m guided sake think is a bad guy but he ended on the contrary to use the frozen saying nice things about Saturday hey don’t be close friends but they know each other well enough that use of role holds Socrates in high esteem and even after Socrates has criticized things that use the front is sad use the frog doesn’t get angry and he doesn’t think that Socrates is trying to do anything bad camp out with you if you read more while you run into people feel on the contrary to Socrates if you try to do bad things that’s not the way you throw so we see Socrates doing with Socrates. Which is the question people and and to try to get them to think about some of the things that they think and believe and even change their minds but we’ll see you know anything about Socrates which is how he doesn’t notice that he didn’t say a bit of a bad word about mellitus but considered Express around and I have to tell the computer what did you say about know quimby regarded as being expressed ironically another irony is when you say something and you really mean the opposite Socrates doesn’t say definitely what know if this his motives are in speaking to you he says what his motives might be this is a somebody who presses charges again somebody that has to do with education might have very good motives because education is important and being concerned with the children and how they’re being taught is important and therefore a person who does that might be doing something very worthwhile not saying that he knows that because he’s he doesn’t know about this now you’re going to read the apology for the next class in the apology wherein the courtroom and Socrates will get the whole trial this is Plato just venting up with that transcript of the trial he’s presenting us with his memory of Socrates defense but in the course of Socrates defense he questions relative so is useful for you remember to recognize first of all by reading one of the things I said first time we got together was Plato’s dialogues are works of literature they’re not the way you’re used to getting ideas educationally when you’re in school typically you read textbooks and text books are written in a form that’s called narration as the narrator is the speaker going out with a person is because Bruce is a given any identity or character you use our assume it’s the author right just writing is her ideas essays textbooks determined that this is written like a play one of the differences between a play of drama or a novel NSA is that we’re not just presented with a person’s ideas were presented with the person we get some idea of what the person looks like him so when you read this new view you’re looking for the ideas you know if off to class and the the that’s all that is happening in a way people talk to each other they’re just trying to work out some ideas so you’re right to focus on the ideas that you need also to pay attention to the characters and how they behave chargeHe is fro in a way that is not critical and attacking about however it implies that one clearly because if education of the youth is a very very important issue that means that anybody who speaks about it and needs to be looked at carefully I need to consider carefully what are your she is doing want to go so what you’re doing might be helpful and might be harmful it’s like being a surgeon okay you’re in there with a scalpel you damn well better be careful right now I want a lot of the apology next time which means when I can have anything like an adequate discussion of the youth for but prefer to let use the last few minutes and you notice I suspended the the dialogue with you because we’re running out of time and I want to get a few ideas out here today for you to see about as I said in the document that you read listen to or read bit very short right was like if The minutes 10 okay for short usually I talk a lot see that but it was at the end of the day I talk six hours I was tired so he you’re Best help if you wanted so yeah I say to you consider not only the ideas here but what’s happening Socrates is doing is trying to do an is it going thing or not now if we look back at the frog what’s up What Socrates trying to do get a defense from you this is like a consultation right you know what piety is I’ll have a defense so that’s the question that the central idea in this file which doesn’t get get the the central idea is this if you know what piety is that will be a great benefit to you to others because you will then know what to do know what that is to do something good song if week ask about piety and is Socrates being pious or not roving pies are now resting you is it at high V trying to understand if piping involves doing what God want us to do being obedient to the god survey’s idea five you need to know what the gods want to do god God wanted to do and you also need to understand what it is when somebody tells you something you may think you understand what so you may not and this is the spyware is very common experience of the Greeks had with their oracles the Oracle with speaking in in very short give short answers to questions and answers would often be misunderstood the issue of what the gods sake is central to this discussion is brief discussion with you as a pro because of Socrates points out for things he knows all the things that the stories about the gods sake points out the different gods think different so this is a polytheistic ancient Greek religion different from the monotheism set for the most part and in any case in our world now But these different gods have different ideas about things they love and care about the different things they’re posed to each other frequently but if you have scriptures that report the ideas of what believe there is silver candle is in there because one God not saying one word the one God through miss talking to more than one profit in certain that one thing so we if we’re going to follow Scriptures need to try to understand and one of the obvious features of the history of religion is that people have disagreed with each other as to what you’re the God they supposedly all believe in is telling us to do so Socrates is saying that apply the law no therefore what I decided to try to make sketch of an argument in which you could say that although use a frog in this dialogue presents himself as the one these pious and Is an expert on piety and Socrates presents itself as one who doesn’t know about it Socrates is the seeker for understanding is the one who is being pies showing us what price he is well that’s a little too quick so but we’re going gone to the apology and we meet next Monday and we’ll have a lot more time on Monday