PHIL 103 C, Wednesday, 8-30-17

Make-up talk on Plato's Euthyphro.

audio/mpeg PHIL_103_C_G_E_Mon_8_28_17.mp3 — 7641 KB


Transcript

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[Music]
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this podcast recording is for Professor
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Ruttenberg three sections philosophy 103
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C E and G please put it up for all three
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of them it's to make up for missed class
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on Wednesday October 30th and I had to
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be away and students are to listen to
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this discussion podcast discussion of
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Plato's Euthyphro and write about it as
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I instructed in class the dialogue
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Plato's Euthyphro is presented as having
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taken place shortly before suffragists
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fog if readers are aware of the outcome
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of the trial presented in the apology
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but also in the Credo with Socrates in
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jail and in the Phaedo where he takes
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the poisoned ends his life we probably
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take seriously the idea that Socrates
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could have used some help in defending
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himself but we should also consider the
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Euthyphro as an example of Socrates
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conversations that led some to charge
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him with in piety so we need to ask
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ourselves not only what light the
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discussion sheds on what piety is but
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also whether the discussion itself can
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help us to understand what it is to act
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piously that is does searching for
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understanding of piety improve those who
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search for it and what follows is a kind
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of outline of the Euthyphro in which I
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will give indications of the page not
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necessarily the page of the Edition that
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you have
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but a page number in the Greek standard
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edition that is also included in most
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editions except very inexpensive ones
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and those pages are called Stephanus
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numbers after the scholar who organized
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during the Renaissance the works of
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Plato Stephanus numbers 1 through 4
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include an introduction of Socrates or
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so and the court problems that they each
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have Euthyphro claims those who
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questioned his prosecution of his father
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though they know little of piety and
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impiety Socrates at 5 D asks for a
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definition of piety Euthyphro cites
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stories of God's punishing fathers
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Socrates asks if Euthyphro believes such
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stories he points out that Euthyphro has
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not defined piety by those examples or
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stories that's at 6 D at seven Euthyphro
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gives his first attempt at a definition
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piety is what is pleasing to the gods
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but the disputes among the gods are
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about these very matters if we believe
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them if we believe the stories we must
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believe they do not agree as to what is
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dear or pleasing to them when men
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disagree
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it is about justice what it is and who
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has or has not done it and even if all
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the gods approve of his action would
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that define piety at 9 C the question is
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is piety then whatever all the gods love
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or what is pleasing to all the gods at
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10 a do the God's love piety because it
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is pious or is it pious because they
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love it if everything pious is loved by
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the gods that does not tell us why it is
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pious what piety is
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as the refutation just below shows
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Socrates gives illustrations by the
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analogy of piety with verbs like
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carrying lead and seen in the refutation
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he shows that if anything becomes or is
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it affected in any way it does not
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become because it is in a state of
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becoming it is in a state of becoming
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because it becomes if so then a thing is
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in a state of being loved because they
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love it loving is not the essential
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character of piety but merely an effect
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belonging to it that is people or gods
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love something because of something
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about it it's being loved is not -
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something about it that makes it loved
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since it is rather than loving that
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makes it being loved then the other way
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around
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use the fros words like Daedalus statues
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do not stay put Euthyphro is lazy now
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but this this is at 11:00 Stephanus
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number 11 - between 11 and 12 in this
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section Euthyphro is trying to get out
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of the discussion and also protesting
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that he thinks he gives good answers but
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Socrates criticisms questions that
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Socrates raises about his answers give
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his words a meaning that he feels he
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didn't didn't intend this is related to
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the charge that socrates twisted
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people's words and made things seem
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better or worse than they really were
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but we can see that it is equally
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probably more plausible that Socrates is
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not twisting his words but showing
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possible implications that they have and
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that can only be avoided by a clearer
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understanding of what he means as
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something different from the meaning
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that gives your eyes to those
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implications at 12
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these explains that fear is wider than
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reverence in other words reverence
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advance fear not everything that we feel
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do we here have reverence for similarly
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justice is wider than piety with with
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the explanation of piety as part of
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justice Euthyphro is encouraged to offer
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another definition which we can call the
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third piety is that part of Justice
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which attends to the guards but Socrates
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asks is attending to the gods like other
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arts that is for their benefit
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no Euthyphro says it is ministration or
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service like slave to master but what
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then is the work of the gods to which
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men serve when they're being pious now
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at 14 Stefan is 14 youth fro says that
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knowing how to pray and sacrifice to the
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gods benefits the state and family what
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does this science and of asking and
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giving do for them it do for the gods
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it gives them honor and praise which
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pleases them then once again piety comes
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to mean that which is loved by the gods
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so the argument has gone around in a
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circle and no answer has been given to
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what the gods love that makes it Palace
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in summary piety cannot be defined by
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what the gods love if they disagree and
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even if they do agree about Yusuf Roe's
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case that does not tell us what piety is
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like all cases of being affected things
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are not defined by our attitudes towards
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them some questions Socrates tells Yusuf
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role that he needs his help to defend
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himself against the charge of corrupting
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the youth by teaching them in piety why
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does he think that Yusuf Roe can help
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him why does he think that finding out
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what
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piety is can help him why does he assume
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that he does not know what piety is why
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does Euthyphro fail to give Socrates a
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true definition of piety and under that
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last question why is his first attempt
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not a definition at all secondly why is
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his second attempt a definition but one
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that used to throw contradicts by his
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beliefs about the gods next by thinking
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of piety as a part of justice Socrates
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draws attention to the idea that it has
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to do with attending to the gods
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why does use the for we have difficulty
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explaining why the gods want humans to
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attend to them and finally if the gods
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cannot be improved in any way by human
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effort why would the gods want human
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beings to make the effort to be pious
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and to be just please note that the
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podcast recorder failed for both on
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Monday the August 28th for both
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philosophy 103 C as in Charlie and E as
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in Edward it was successful however for
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philosophy 103 G for good so if students
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from any of the three sections wish to
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get a review at least an approximate
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review of what was discussed in class on
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Monday the 28th you should click on 103
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G because there won't be anything for
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the other two sections see you on
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September 6th